Suzanne Kryder interviews mediation class instructor Anne Lightsey.

AL: My name is Anne Lightsey and I work as a mediator, a corporate trainer and facilitator and as an organizational ombudsman.

SK: You’ve been teaching this mediation class for many years. Why do you teach it?

AL: Oh my god, I love that question! I teach because I watch these skills change people’s lives. I feel like I’m imparting magic.

I’ve had people come back and say that they talk to their teenagers differently. I had a woman say that she really thinks that these skills prevented her child from committing suicide. I had another woman, who is the director of a very large organization, say that she goes about leading and managing people very differently than she did before.

SK: I hate conflict. As a mediator, I probably shouldn’t. Is that true?

AL: I think we are hardwired to hate conflict. That’s what the research shows, so I don’t think that this makes us like conflict. I think it gives us the tools to deal with conflict more constructively.

SK: Like what tools?

AL: One is listening in a different way and two is understanding the dynamics of conflict and the root causes of conflict. Really, I hope what people leave here understanding is that what the surface conflict is is not often times what the real heart of the conflict is. They have the ability to acknowledge, to listen, to reframe, to ask open-ended questions and to understand that they really need to take some layers off to understand what’s really happening in the conflict.

SK: If they use those skills, what happens to their anger and their normalness as a human being?

AL: What happens to the mediator’s anger? I don’t know that I know the answer to that. I’m thinking about the last time I needed to use these skills in a personal conflict, so anger is not my go-to.

I think of a time when there was a situation in which there was a tremendous injustice being done to me. I just feel like these skills help me understand where I’m coming from and it also helps me understand where the other person is coming from and that helps mitigate some of my anger.

SK: In terms of justice and them being in the wrong, how do you keep listening to them and not say, “Hey, you’re wrong”?

AL: I think it’s the same thing we do at the mediation table. It’s our job to come with a mindset of curiosity rather than conclusion. I come and try to really understand. [For example], “I hear that you really believe X and I really believe Y. Can you tell me why you believe X so strongly?”

SK: I’m into simple like that person is right, this person is wrong. Mediation doesn’t sound simple.

AL: In mediation, we are definitely not into “you are right and you are wrong.” We are non-judgmental and neutral. I think what we really try to bring is that everybody is right from how they see the world. I’m not looking for “the” right, I’m looking for “your right” and the other person’s “right.”

SK: Define positions versus interests. That’s something mediators listen for; positions versus interests.

AL: This is a huge topic and it’s a complex topic. It’s not easy for most people to understand.

If you think about it, a position is a solution, a demand. It’s what someone wants. [For example] “I want you to take your Christmas decorations down.” That’s a position and in conflict resolution, we don’t pay a lot of attention to positions because that may not be what’s really at the heart of the conflict.

“Why is it important to you that I take my Christmas decorations down?” is what we’re really looking for. The position is the “what.” The interest is the “why” that position is important.

It takes a lot of skill and practice to move from understanding what someone’s position is to having them feel comfortable saying and identifying what their interests are.

It’s a big, complex topic.

SK: Are you saying it’s a lot to let go of our position and move to interest?

AL: No, I’m not asking anyone to let go of [their position], I’m just asking them to let me go with them on this journey to understand why that position is so important to them. You don’t ever have to let go of it, I just have to understand what is underneath that position.

We often use the analogy of an iceberg where the position is what you see on top of the water, but it’s everything that’s below [the water] that is the interest. You can still have your position, I just need to know why that position is so important to you.

SK: Name some examples of interest.

AL: Interests are things like fairness, appreciation, inclusion, respect, self-identity, safety and those sorts of things.

SK: I think one interest is to avoid embarrassment. Isn’t that normal? I don’t want my clothes falling off. I want to avoid embarrassment. Isn’t that a normal, human reaction?

AL: Well, I think all of those are normal needs. These are needs. Interests are needs that we have. We have a need to be treated fairly, to be treated with respect, to not be excluded, to have a sense of safety, to not be embarrassed. When happens when those core needs get violated is then we have a tendency to have conflict.

In mediation, your job is to figure out what core needs are being violated and then help the person figure out what they want to do about getting those needs met.

SK: Are you saying that there’s another way to get them met besides having conflict?

AL: I think I am saying that. I think what happens is that when people are in conflict, they often times do not even know what their interests are. They just know that something is not working, but they don’t know what it is.
Mediation helps people identify it and then figure out, now that I know what I really need, how do I go about getting that met in a way that is not conflictual.

Suzanne Kryder interviews mediation class student Shane Baca.

SB: My name is Shane Baca and I live in San Antonio New Mexico.

I work for the National Radio Astronomy Observatory located 52 miles west of Socorro on the Plains of San Augustin. I’ve been out there for about 25-1/2 years. My primary role is doing the heating, ventilation and air conditioning as well as all the plumbing, the water, the waste water supply, the fire suppression, air compressors and fuel systems and almost anything else they need help with.

SK: You’re taking this mediation class. Why?

SB: Well, I thought it would help me with communicating. There are some plans in the works for maybe expanding the facility and so if that happens, we’ll be getting a lot more people in, which will mean a lot of more diverse people, so I thought this way I thought it would help us all get along since we’re all out there together so much.

SK: I wonder if sometimes when we’re listening if we make up stuff and then project it; “Oh yeah, I know what you’re feeling.” Do you ever feel like your projecting? How do you feel it’s helping?

SB: I think you’re right on that; in the past I really did project a lot. I would start planning the conversation out, trying to guess what they were going to tell me ahead of time. Now that I’ve taken this class, it’s really made me realize that that is not the thing to do. It’s just listening and being there for people when they’re speaking and we’re having a meeting.

I have noticed that it has really helped a lot whenever I’ve been in some of the workgroups here lately since I’ve started the class. I’ve gotten comments from some of the people that I work with. They’re really impressed. They’re like, “Wow, we really see a difference in your listening!” And I’ve noticed a difference in how people are reacting as well. We seem to really be interacting a lot better in the different groups.

In my job, I get to travel throughout the facility all day long and I see almost everybody almost every day. I really get a lot of contact time. It’s been really nice since the class started.

SK: How can a listener listen to someone and not go nuts? What do you do as a human being that helps you stay calm when people might be driving you crazy?

SB: That one has been tough! [laughs] Especially out there, there are some people who are difficult. I’m sure they feel the same way about me and about some of the other people as well. It’s just listening. I don’t know, it’s kind of strange, trying to figure out what someone is really telling me. It’s the feeling what they’re bringing and the emotion that they’re bringing deep down. That’s what I’m listening for now. That is what is making a difference. Not so much that they’re complaining that it’s too hot or too cold or something like that, there is something person to them inside.

SK: One worry I have is letting go of who you really are. I’m wondering what you can our listeners. You’re genuinely listening, you’re making eye contact, you’re interested in the feelings. Are you letting go of who you really are?

SB: You know, that’s an interesting question because I really did struggle with that at the beginning of the class, I really, really did. It wasn’t until about the second or third class that it really hit me that I have to be me. I can’t be somebody else. I can’t speak like somebody else. I have to be true to myself and just be who I am! Whether I’m a little loud or laugh a little too much or just my persona, I have to be me, and I think people see that.

People can see when somebody is relaxed because they’re being themselves. It comes through in your voice, in your posture and in the rhythm of how you talk to somebody. It was really surprising to me.

I hadn’t really thought about it much. Like I said, I have to be me. It’s a big thing to be yourself. It’s a little scary.

SK: Do you feel like you can incorporate “you” and be genuine?

SB: I think so. It’s a learning process, that’s for sure. It hasn’t come easy. By no means has it come easy. It’s been pretty tough because I’m not used to communicating in this way. It’s so new to me.

Being out there, I’ve worked with these guys for a long time and we just communicate different because we’ve been around each other. It’s a little rough sometimes in how we speak to each other. Being in this class has given me a different perspective and a different style. It’s been tough learning this and it’s going to still take a lot of practice, even beyond the class to remind myself to make eye contact and just listen to them, deep down listen and pay attention.

Suzanne Kryder Interviews mediation class student Beulah John

BJ: My name is Beulah John. I am human resources manager for Navajo Agricultural Products Industry. It’s a tribal enterprise on the Navajo Nation producing agricultural products and selling to markets locally, nationally, as well as internationally. I’ve been with the organization for 12 years in December.

My primary responsibilities within the organization are training and developing our staff, particularly our management team and administering our personnel policies and procedures and assisting the organization to maintain compliance with applicable employment laws within the organization.

SK: You’re in this mediation class. What practices in particular are you interested in implementing?

BJ: What I’ve learned in the class so far is getting more in-depth into the listening skills and then being able to help parties discuss matters that they need to address in hopes of helping them to come to a solution or some form of resolution to their issue or concerns that they may have.

In my experience working with my employer, I have seen where this mediation process would be helpful in our workers being able to openly discuss matters, not necessarily what we utilize as a grievance process where it’s more formal. The mediation process is a little more informal and allows the parties to be able to openly discuss their concerns. That’s what I’m trying to look for with our organization.

SK: When you think about our listeners, what do you think listeners need to know about resolving conflict?

BJ: I think one of the main things to pay attention to is the interest from the parties involved, taking that time to not only hear, but understand what they may be discussing or what issues or concerns they may have. That would help you convey to both parties what the issue may be. In a sense, you’re almost speaking for them, but not necessarily telling them what the issue is. You’re helping them resolve the issue and come to a resolution.

SK: I don’t want you to break confidentiality, but I’m curious if you’ve used any of these skills in your HR position already.

BJ: Considering that we’ve had four of the six sessions so far, I have recognized where some of the skills that I have learned through this course have been helpful in my workplace.

SK: That’s so exciting! Can you say what changes you’re seeing?

BJ: For myself, I’m seeing a lot more willingness to discuss matters or concerns. I’m seeing a little more reaction in the sense of wanting to discuss and talk things through further in order to come to a solution. It has helped where some matters may be closed out early because parties don’t want to listen to one another, I’m starting to see where it has helped.

You’re practicing not as a mediator per say, you’re taking some of the skills that you’ve been learning and then applying them to the workplace. For me, I’m seeing that our employees are starting to notice that difference.

It’s helpful in that we are able to have more discussions rather than what I’ve seen in the past which was parties not wanting to continue further or pursue anything further because, in their view, it’s never going to be resolved or there is some sort of resistance. I’m seeing a little more change where there is a little more willingness to want to talk things through.

Suzanne Kryder Interviews Matt Loehman

ML: My name is Matt Loehman. I’m currently the Executive Director of Horizons of New Mexico. Horizons of New Mexico is the non-profit that administers the New Mexico State Use Act which is a law that helps provide employment opportunities for individuals with disabilities.

The way the law works is that state and local government agencies provide contract preference for small businesses that are owned by and employ individuals with disabilities and non-profits that employ individuals with disabilities.

The work is particularly of interest to me because I’m both very interested in helping people who are unemployed or underemployed gain employment as well as myself because I’m an individual with a disability.

I’ve only been on the jobs for six months, but in that time, I’ve found it very rewarding.

SK: Tell me about your disability.

ML: I guess I’ve always had a disability and that is that I have achondroplasia which is the most common form of dwarfism.
To be honest with you, I never considered myself to be an individual with a disability until I was 21 and that’s when I had a spinal cord injury. It was spinal stenosis in the cervical area which is in my upper neck. Ultimately, after a couple of surgeries that tried to fix the problem, I ended up a quadriplegic. It took me roughly a year and a half to regain much of my independence.

This injury took me out of school. I was in the middle of college at the University of Arizona. I had to leave school and move back to Albuquerque, but after about three semesters of recovery, I returned to school and ultimately graduated from there.
Being short-statured to many people is a disability, but for me, it slowed me down, but I didn’t ever consider myself disabled until I suffered that injury.

SK: And you are no longer a quadriplegic?

ML: No. I still have some neurological damage in hands, arms and legs. My left arm and leg are still pretty weak. My right arm and leg are pretty strong. The effects of the injury are definitely still limiting, but I live an independent life, albeit sometimes a little slow.

SK: What motivated you to take this mediation course?

ML: What interested me or motivated to this mediation course was learning how to active listen, learning different ways to find common agreement between two individuals. It serves me to be able to ask questions in a way that help reach common ground.

SK: In this mediation class, what was the most important learning that you’ve had?

ML: Probably learning how to reflect and just the value of reaffirming people’s perspectives and thoughts and how they’re feeling about a situation, just simply restating things, I never realized how empowering it is to that individual. I’ve already been able to use that professionally, not formally as a mediation tactic, but it had definitely improved my ability to relate to different groups.

SK: What’s the hardest part of mediation that you’ve learned?

ML: The hardest part of mediation is that I want to solve a problem and mediation has taught me over the last six weeks that that’s not my job. I’ve always been a problem solver, whether it’s figuring out the world when my geometry is not necessarily built for the world or solving problems for friends or at work. I’m naturally always looking to solve a problem. That’s not what this art is for. The art is to provide open-ended questions and acknowledgements that allow the participants in the mediation to decide if a solution is possible.

Suzanne Kryder Interviews mediation class student Liliana Urban

LU: My name is Liliana Urban. [Hungarian] This is a Hungarian expression which means greetings everyone. I’m a lawyer back home in Hungary, a junior associate. I have just finished three years practice and I’m facing the Bar Exam pretty soon.

SK: What’s the most important thing you’ve learned so far from class about mediation or about people’s conflicts?

LU: People, conflicts have a main core. It’s very, very interesting to getting there. It’s very special like “peeling the onion.” This is the expression, what we use as a mediator. It’s very interesting because as a lawyer, we stay on the surface. We have different skills to help the problem, to find out the problem because we are look at the act, but here, you see something, but underneath, there are so many questions. This is really, really interesting. You have to use really soft skills to getting there.

SK: For our listeners, what would you recommend for using those soft skills to get inside or peel the onion?

LU: I think you should never stick to the problem, what you see first because if you just see the surface problem, it’s not true because maybe under that or next to it, there is something else and you have to let the parties tell you what they mean. You have to really listen carefully because maybe they’ll say just one word, then it’s so important and you have to follow this to the root to see where it’s coming from. Why did he or she say that? Because maybe it’s not about that problem, but something else and there is a connection.

SK: What do you feel is the hardest part about mediation?

LU: I think when someone is getting too emotional, they can’t handle the emotion and it takes you very far away from the real problem. They are focusing on something, but they don’t try to understand why they are feeling that, just the emotional part and they’re stuck there with just one feeling. I think in every situation, you have to use your brain and your heart as well, but sometimes, the heart is too strong, and this is really difficult.

SK: What would you do in that situation where someone is stuck on one emotion?

LU: I think maybe sometimes they need time. As a mediator, when there is an argument, maybe for them, it’s just burning out those emotions or just feeling it, but it’s enough at that time. You have to accept that they are getting too emotional, but it’s a step towards going forward. It can be really good as well. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just difficult.